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I don't quite know how it happened that exactly tonight the idea for creating a post like this crept up to me, and the longer I think of it I see no particular reason either. it's one of these things that rambles in the back of your mind for long enough, yet you're never too aware of it ... and all of the sudden it bursts out to the world, or it is willing to, and you are the one to choose if you want that to be.
now I've been on this website for long enough and it's either me or the website that changed in order for me to feel about it the way I do; even though I believe it is not quite the latter. I remember these times where I adored this website and it meant so much to me so I ended up spending ages browsing the width of galleries and art we have on here; now that hasn't changed, I'm still fascinated by some things that I find.
yet what something inside of me started to think is that this place has become yet another place that just scratches along the surface and doesn't dig deeper into it .. the signs are everywhere. god forbid the front-page which has never been more than pure commercialized or "cute art", also the eagerness of people to comment which often results in two-word-compliments rather than critique which merely has the purpose to remind us of their existence rather than actually commenting on the art, I also see it in the title of groups "hotmenandboys" or "morethan200favorites" or "getattention" or "iamjustonthiswebsitetobeadored", and eventually in a lot of polls that end up sounding like "I am not sure if you like what I do, so what do you prefer, naked girls or cardbox men with bokeh? whatever you choose, I'll do more of it because I don't do art for myself but for you"

I know this sounds very harsh. I don't intend to insult specific people, but just to point out the general attitude that I find on here. I just want to remind all of you of something; "art" is an expression of thought. it's not to be adored. it's not to please people. it's not to receive attention. alright, who am I to say that, some of you might say that I have "no right to say that because you have like a gazillion of watchers" ... but what do I need hundred people merely pressing a button? to those of you who still write; who take the time to look at something, to think about it and to get inspired; I want you to know that what you are doing is very appreciated, and what matters when it comes to art. of course having people look at your art is good - but a number won't measure its value.

just keep in mind that art is not something to consume but something to appreciate and to get in touch with. try to look beyond things. try to understand.
even if seemingly no one loves what you do; as long as you love it, it will be true. and you do not need to depend on what anyone says.

some people on here give me hope, and that may be the reason why I am staying. or because this website made me to who I am today.
also a great shout-out to BeauCyphre for never staying quiet about things.
all of you, take care.
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dandelion-sound Featured By Owner Jun 8, 2013
You give hope. I eventually recalled why I wanted to do so many things. And that everything can be easier now. Honestly thank You.
TheKnell Featured By Owner Mar 18, 2013   Writer
I agree with you wholeheartedly and commend you for your positive outlook at the end of your post.
organblower Featured By Owner Feb 17, 2013  Hobbyist Writer
I agree with much of what you perceive. I think it is important not to assign blame to the site or to the bronies, and certainly not to ourselves. Consider it more as evolution. I belong to other internet sites and have since the early 90's back in the bulletin board days before the www.

I feel if one can make a connection with two or three people on a site, they are doing well. I watch 153 people and co-incidentally 153 people watch me. They aren't the same 153 either although certainly many are. This is very funny considering the journal I did a couple of weeks ago! Out of the 153 I watch, there are definitely three who would be a personal loss if they left. One is quite young but is also perhaps the most inspirational artist I follow.

I'm glad you are staying, to read this Nicolas.
organblower Featured By Owner Feb 17, 2013  Hobbyist Writer
my bad, misspelling your name. Nikolas
ContagiousPixie Featured By Owner Feb 13, 2013  Professional Photographer
I feel the exact. same. way. As well as with red-moon-rabbit's comments

I never have any motivation to upload either. Probably because I can't upload multiple like I can on fb and flickr.
I don't feel the same appreciation here at times. Less people view my work on flickr and fb, but I feel the love for
it far more often.
APPLE009ZORRO Featured By Owner Feb 12, 2013
Thank you for reminding the meaning of art! I learnt a lot!:handshake:
sydneytyler Featured By Owner Feb 12, 2013  Student Traditional Artist
Though I still love dA too much to leave permanently, I couldn't agree with you more wholeheartedly.
TheStonefooted Featured By Owner Feb 11, 2013  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
I agree with you for the most part. DeviantArt's community produces enormous sums of art that caters to an archetype or theme that's easy to sell. I agree that these mass produced images are consumed sooner than they're appreciated, and that they're often produced with more selfish ideas in mind than simply having the art witnessed. I believe, though, that the matter is a bit more complicated than simply mass-produced media usurping the labor of artists. The the face of DA, today, doesn't provide the stimulation that intrigues you, but it that's not a reason to refuse it the title of art.

When generic, ill-written poetry or pose, for example, earns an immense emotional response, it's because the writer has used terms perhaps so inapt that any other amateur would've used the same. The thousands who haven't learned to think as poets can likewise read the words and reap the emotional context that produced them. At least, if they've felt the same feelings at some point. It's odd to think that the sheer poverty of a work can make it effective, but that's what happens, and I think that that's beautiful. I can't appreciate the written works in question, but those who can can and do feel close enough to found cultures. This is why the pastel/furry/punk/lolita/whatever communities that compose so much of DA are produce so much of its art aren't collectives of DA's greatest visionaries or technicians. In these cultures, anyone with a personality and the will to express it can become attract people to relate to, plus help all those people relate through himself. Just as much, anyone who's kept strong feelings to himself and isn't sure how to aptly express them can find others who feel the same way. If this isn't art in action, I don't know what is.

I know it doesn't cater to you, or even myself. I'm always looking for more inventive works, such as your own, Nikolas. But what DA is now is still important in its own way.
xSakuraChu Featured By Owner Feb 11, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
Reading this was a bit of a slap in the face to me. Most times, I just don't have much to say, yet I really do appreciate the art that others contribute to the site, whether or not they have 1, 100, or 1,00 watchers. That's not the important part to me. Before the account I currently have, I was on dA a while back, and I do see the differences that you're pointing out. However, there are still people that I genuinely adore here and that are pretty much friends of mine, though we haven't met face to face. There's also the fact that I don't really know any other art sharing websites where people wouldn't save my photos and declare it as their own. Anyway, I'm not trying to justify my lack of words, and seeing this makes me want to take more time before I just go and comment on someone's work.
elizabethzelia Featured By Owner Feb 11, 2013
This is a really interesting dialogue that you've opened up, and I do agree with you 100%, and I feel that this is something a vast majority of the community who have been here for at least 3-4 years have been feeling. But one thing you haven't addressed/thought of is that the whole attention seeking thing is actually more tragic than it is annoying. By being on dA for many years (on another account), I've seen many and most people here who classify themselves as unsocial and alone in real life, so they seek attention through the internet and especially dA where it's so easy to find people share the same interests as you. So while it may be annoying, it's something that can be found literally everywhere, and actually I think tumblr is a much, much worse place for the sheer number attention seekers and the only difference between the sites is the filtration and personalization of what you have on tumblr. Plus, with dA, we're dealing with the biggest art website and any website that grows to be "the biggest" always tends to have more negatives found than positives just based on the sheer number and diversity of people (meaning having to, sadly, see an influx of cutesy art and porn-centered groups). And the whole thing with the front page is the worst feature of dA, yes, and we should really be pointing the finger at the designers and developers of the website, because I've noticed in the last year especially the front page has brought forth the worst/commercialized art to the foreground. I think if they developed the front page to be unique for each person, based on their interests, then dA would be a completely different and better place. I hope you don't think I'm talking down to you, because I really do agree with you, it just saddens me to see people leave the site especially when we can all agree that we have had some fantastic experiences on here (which is what kept us coming back) and if we do continue to leave, than we can never expect the site to get better. You're a real gem, Nikolas.
Never-Brush-My-Teeth Featured By Owner Feb 11, 2013   Traditional Artist
To be honest mate i think you are falling in the trap of making the word ''art'' a subject of demanding emotions.Art has a hollow meaning and is a word of elitism in my opinion.I have enjoyed a lot of your photographs,as they granted a great feeling as i was watching them.Pause.Is that not enough?Why go there and start calling it art and what it should make you feel?Every image crushes each person differently.I just do not understand the reason you do not like deviantart anymore.The front page does not massively characterize the dev community,and being mainstream or cute does not mean you aint ''art''.The fact that some things are mainstream point out that they are liked by a lot of people and are catchy.Sure,not all the times,there are a lot of levels of mainstream.Anyhow,i believe that showing your photos is a great way of sharing your stuff with us who enjoy it and you should not be arsed about the uploads you do not like on dev.This is the internet after all,every corner is open to anyone >.<
Buzzard09 Featured By Owner Feb 11, 2013  Hobbyist Photographer
Whatever happens to this site, please don't let it change you. Your artwork is expressive, and it seems like so much can be taken from it. Whether it's satirical or personal, when I'm looking at your photos or reading the text, I can so easily imagine whole realities beyond what I see, going any direction. It's stimulating in a whole different kind of way. It seems like you are one of the few people on here who really value the individual and his/her own personal interpretation of what they see. I think expressive artwork is the best kind :)
Kayru-Kitsune Featured By Owner Feb 11, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
I like what you say, but I honestly have to say I'm inbetween. I like both facets of the art world for their own reason.
This, exactly what you say, the introspection and contemplation, is what I like about artists like you. I like to be pushed to think differently, to let art speak to me and to speak back to it and to the artist.
And I can see how, in that light, 'fan art'/'pop art' seems shallow and attention-seeking.

However... I wouldn't dismiss it just yet. Part of the beauty of art is that it can serve many purposes. Just like music... there can be music that moves you, that tells you a story... and then there can be simply music that is fun and caters to your mood. It's taken me a while, but I've learned to stop criticizing it and take it for what its purpose is. It would be just as unfair to dismiss it as it would be to dismiss a comedy movie because it didn't make you cry or contemplate the meaning of life. It serves a different purpose.

Do I expect you to produce this kind of art? No. This is why there are different genres, different musicians, different directors.

I understand some things may seem like it's just pandering to the masses, but don't dismiss it too quickly. Just because something is popular doesn't mean it's a sellout. It means that many can enjoy it and find common ground in it. And there's nothing intrinsically wrong with that. Art needs inspiration, and for many, their art is a direct response to what inspires them (fan art).

There's room for both in the world. :)
Kayru-Kitsune Featured By Owner Feb 11, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
Hopefully I, myself, don't get immediately dismissed just because I seem to be the only one here with a differing opinion.
carolynwest Featured By Owner Feb 11, 2013  Student
I've never read something more true on here. I feel sometimes that this site is overwhelming with the amount of talent, but also the amount of irrelevant posts. People are consumed by likes, numbers and statistics and I think we all need to take a step back, breathe and remember why we create art and support each other rather than compete with one another.
Nilanja Featured By Owner Feb 11, 2013
ja, du hast recht!
alles ist ein bisschen oberflächlich hier...aber ich habe noch keine seite gefunden, wo das nicht so ist.
ich realisiere immer mehr, dass pageviews, zahlen usw nichts bedeuten. das hat aber auch seine zeit gedauert, denn wen freut es nicht, wenn viele leute (zumindest so tun als ob sie) deine sachen mögen? ich denke man wandelt da auf einem schmalen grad...auf der einen seite will man etwas für sich kreieren, auf der anderen seite sind da menschen, die sich dafür interessieren, aber leider auch eine bestimmte erwartungshaltung haben. die hat man an sich selbst aber auch.
dA hat viele schlechte seiten, das stimmt. manches kann an aber quasi ausblenden, zB ist keiner gezwungen auf die frontpage zu schauen. persönlich kann ich aber auch sagen, dass dA ein ganz besonderer ort ist, an dem ich menschen kennen gelernt habe, die so sind wie ich, die mich inspirieren, meine sorgen teilen und die mich auch ein stückchen mehr zu mir selbst gebracht haben. das sollte man nie vergessen!
Gorgone Featured By Owner Feb 11, 2013
Wahre Worte...leider, aber diese Entwicklung ist in so vielen Netzwerken zu sehen.
Ich will aber nicht von hier weg. Ich habe durch diesen Müll den Kontakt zu so vielen tollen Leuten verloren, diesmal mache ich nicht den Fehler.

Ich hoffe es ist nur wie eine "Grippe". Es verschwindet von selbst, so wie es gekommen ist. Man muss nur etwas Geduld haben.
OliviaMichalski Featured By Owner Feb 11, 2013  Hobbyist Photographer
Das war genial.
Es stimmt, dass vieles sich geändert hat, im Vergleich zu der Zeit, als wir beide uns angemeldet hatten.
Damals hat man noch weniger nackte Frauen, weniger Ponies, weniger Kinderkram und so weiter gesehen. Jetzt, da sich immer mehr anmelden, vor allem alte Männer und junge Teenager, die sich eigentlich noch nicht anmelden dürften.. wird diese Seite langsam wie Facebook..
DianaGrigore Featured By Owner Feb 10, 2013
You're right with everything you said, the site has changed and not in a good manner. People who seek attention shove their facebook photos or snapshots or whatever they took on a night out and consider they've done some wonderful thing and that we should all appreciate it and raise them a statue. Well yeah. There are people like this everywhere, not only on dA. But underneath this 'surface' of people I've found a lot of nice friends here who are just making art, improving, experimenting.
It happened to me some time ago, I didn't log in to dA at all for a few years. Didn't have time, lost interest, or other reasons. But I came back, and when I can, I'm trying to make it a better place with little things. I'm not trying to change it, but I'd like to think I've helped some people follow their path and keep on experimenting.
I'm always going to follow my dreams, even now, when I'm struggling in my own country between these all so-called 'artists' that appeared overnight and are very well known for wannabe photography. I ignore them, but their community is growing bigger and bigger every day.
Okay, I'm done with rambling.
NikolasBrummer Featured By Owner Feb 10, 2013
I feel that what you are saying is very true indeed. Not only does it generally go after attention-seeking on here, it also happened that more and more people satisfy whatever lusts they have and it's a little disheartening, isn't it?
yet on the other site, it is easy to blend it out at times. I try to whenever I feel like browsing this website because as you said, there are some beautiful people on here.
maybe we'll somehow manage it.
Starlace Featured By Owner Feb 10, 2013   Traditional Artist
this is so true, and thank you for writing it. you've inspired me to put more thought into my comments.
rainbowchickens Featured By Owner Feb 10, 2013  Student General Artist
I understand completely.
crashmypartyhard Featured By Owner Feb 10, 2013  Hobbyist Artist
reading this, i feel what you're saying is definitely becoming true. when i discovered this site--maybe at least five years ago?--i wasn't a member but i enjoyed all that this site had to offer. and maybe it has changed, with the groups, etc for people who want their art to only be popular, and all the one-word comments that are usually compliments (which are great, don't get me wrong), but a lot of members want that feedback, the comments that say something; point out wrong things and try to help a growing artist expand their horizons, become better.
i'm glad you decided to put this out here, because it proves an astonishing, but good, point.
red-moon-rabbit Featured By Owner Feb 10, 2013  Student Traditional Artist
Niko, you just summed up what I've been feeling for a long time. DA isn't about art anymore, it's all generic, repetitive 'bokeh'. I always look at the front page and there's always some form art involving an eye and splashy watercolours and there's no thought or passion put into it... it's just commercial.
Sometimes that's okay, but it detracts from the few of us artists who put real thought and passion into what we do, and for the most part we're not noticed because we do is not 'pretty' art.

Do you have another outlet? Another place to post work? I'd love to know if you do, because I feel DA has largely exhausted itself in terms of value and use.
Have a hug :hug:
NikolasBrummer Featured By Owner Feb 10, 2013
Yes exactly, you have just worded that so well. Of course that art can be nice, but it is nothing more than pretty, and literally no great artists was great because they made pretty art; they tried to change something.

I have a tumblr blog and a flickr on top of my deviantart profile, here they are;
[link] [link] maybe it is easier to stay in touch this way. even though both these websites are show-off-places in a way too ... I enjoy posting my stuff there just for the thrill of it.
red-moon-rabbit Featured By Owner Feb 11, 2013  Student Traditional Artist
Yes, exactly! Art is not aesthetic, good art is conveying passion, provoking and evoking, changing the world. Nobody ever changed the world with pictures of cute animals and boxmen.

You have been followed on tumblr, good sir ;) Unfortunately I don't tend to use flickr. It'd be great to stay in touch. I absolutely adore your photography, and the passion you put into what you do and what you feel. It's very inspiring :)
loveisacolor Featured By Owner Feb 10, 2013  Student General Artist
My thoughts exactly for the longest time. I don't even come on dA anymore, this check-up is a freak accident, "oh, i wonder how dA is these days." I can't come on here, it's like, the 'cutesy' art is making me NOT want to be creative. So i stay away. I used to get so much inspiration from this website, I could look around for hours. But it seems to me that dA has become more like twitter/instagram/facebook.. stuff like that. And it's not exactly fair because dA was where i'd go to specifically get away for those people.

You're one of the people who will keep the real, original dA going, i think.
BakuSpirit Featured By Owner Feb 10, 2013  Hobbyist
This is so true. And it's horrible, because where's the real art in simply pleasing people? Artists like you are the ones who keep me inspired, to do what I love, to help support the others on this site. I've been here off and on for 3 years now, and so many people have left. It's tragic, really.
Yenni-Vu Featured By Owner Feb 10, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
du bist echt verdammt erwachsen für dein alter! respekt!^^
TheHappy3 Featured By Owner Feb 10, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
You're right. The only thing I see on the front page nowadays is My Little Pony-fanart. And I'm really sick and tired of it. People should grow up or something ...
TheStonefooted Featured By Owner Feb 11, 2013  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
I think there's a bit more to it than that. You're right that there's a lot of My Little Pony fanart. The constant revisitation of the style does cost a lot of creativity. But I don't know if "grow up" is the best advice. My Little Pony was aimed at children, and is likewise immensely whimsical, but from what I hear, it features well rounded characters, a great deal of respect for continuity and fairly essential morals. I don't enjoy it, but I think it's fair that anyone of any age can be profoundly interested in it.
TheHappy3 Featured By Owner Feb 13, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
Oh well, of course. It just seems weird to me that grown up men (I've read some articles on the net about it) watch it and like it so much.

Isn't this all a little creepy? Shouldn't these dudes be doing something more productive with their time, like volunteering at an animal shelter? Or at least something more...manly? Maybe deer hunting, or noodling for catfish?

Well, I know I think it is. But who am I to jugde.
beefbuns Featured By Owner Feb 10, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
I don't think that was the point of this journal entry.
TheHappy3 Featured By Owner Feb 11, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
Oh, well ... I've misunderstood something then.
JotVelZet Featured By Owner Feb 10, 2013  Professional Photographer
I agree with your opinion. This is horrible. Little pony everywhere ;/
TheHappy3 Featured By Owner Feb 11, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
XWhite-FireX Featured By Owner Feb 10, 2013  Hobbyist Photographer
I couldn't agree more. I've seen that around but never thought much of it but the more i come on here and browse the more i see it.
It's quite disheartening that nearly all the art websites i'm on are turning into the same thing. :/
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